De ecclesia, chapter 17, part 8

The church did not begin at Christ’s death; the church as one successive person

Loserth pp. 412.15–415.7

¶1412.15–415.7

412Sed videamus fel commixtum cum mellis dulcedine. In morte (inquit) Christi cepit esse ecclesia, a qua morte sacramenta sumpserunt efficaciam. Patet ex dictis in prima responsione et secunda quomodo error iste nedum tolleret honorem sancte matris ecclesie ex sua antiquitate fundata in fide scripture, sed innuit interempcionem meriti matris nostre et tollit fidem patrum veteris testamenti dehonorando sanctam matrem ecclesiam. Item manifeste responsio obviat sibi ipsi, quia ante mortem Christi fuit ita quod est multitudo omnium christianorum habencium ex integro rectam et eandem fidem per Christum et suos apostolos promulgatam et a sanctis patribus in conciliis generalibus declaratam, ut declaratur in responsione. Ideo ante mortem Christi fuit ita quod est ecclesia. Non enim incepit ecclesia in triduo, quando dicitur 413Christum non esse, nec sapit incarcerantibus presens tempus quod a morte Christi sacramenta sumpserunt suam originem, sicut patet querendo que sacramenta et quando sumpserunt a dicta morte originem. Nec valet alia responsio qua dicitur quod descripcio predicta ecclesie non compeciit ecclesie in sancto triduo, tum quia tunc descripcio non valeret que tam cito deficeret in floribus ecclesie primitive, tum secundo quia iuxta declarata descripcio ecclesie compeciit christianis ante mortem Christi et per idem in sancto triduo. Non ergo deserenda est tam cito dicta descripcio, cum in fine adicitur quod stabit non obstantibus meis obiectibus in eternum. Sed revera fingere descripcionem per quam excluderetur a racione ecclesie tam sanctum apostolorum collegium cum suo abbate pro toto tempore sue viacionis videtur presumpcio, cum presciti dicuntur esse de sancta matre ecclesia et in principio mundi ante creacionem hominis sicut et lapsis ambobus parentibus fuit ecclesia (ut patet Encheridion LXIV°). Ulterius respondendo ad quintam raciunculam dicitur quod sicut continue manet eadem species hominum non obstante quod individua variarentur, sic manet continue eadem universalis ecclesia non obstante quod membra alia generentur et alia corrumpantur. Sic (inquit) manebit idem homo in numero non obstante quod partes equales alie generentur et alie corrumpantur. Quare rogo non sic erit de corpore Christi mistico quod est ecclesia? Et revera illud est bene dictum dummodo consequenter. Oportet enim ecclesiam catholicam esse unam personam sponsam et non formaliter speciem vel universale quod sit multorum singularium, sed 414est una persona successiva a principio mundi usque ad diem iudicii, et post habebit illa persona omnia eius membra, simul perpetuo beata et illius persone nunc una pars est militans et nunc alia, sed sicut nulla pars est reliqua, sic tota illa ecclesia non est pars eius aliqua sed una totalis et gloriosa incommunicabilis persona. Non enim capit ingenium humanum quod iste pauce persone militantes quas falsarius vocat universalem ecclesiam sint alie persone coniunctim vel divisim, ymmo ad alietatem cuiuscunque simplicis persone sequitur alietas multitudinis que ipsam personam caruerit a multitudine que ipsam personam tamquam partem habuerit. Ideo illa ecclesia catholica que durat a principio usque in finem mundi non est persone vel multitudo fidelium que nunc est secundum se totam, sed illa multitudo est pars illius ecclesie catholice que est in magno tempore et semper post diem iudicii, sed in nullo instanti temporis est per totum ante novissimum electum nec in aliqua parte talis temporis, et talis ecclesia augeri potest sed non minui, non quod eadem multitudo predestinatorum in numero sit nunc plures homines et nunc pauciores, sed quod idem commune ad sanctam totalem ecclesiam militantem sit nunc maius et nunc minus, sicut loquitur scriptura Act. VI° de crescente numero discipulorum. Sicut ergo idem tempus in numero non maioratur vel minoratur, sic nec eadem ecclesia in numero nisi accipiendo ecclesiam communiter pro capite et quacunque multitudine totali membrorum suorum. Sic enim maioratur ecclesia, ut homo stante unitate capitis ut anime. Sed ista veritas necessitat ad ponendum quod omnia que fuerunt vel erunt sunt pro suo tempore causancia unum integrum, cuius pars est pro parte temporis totalis 415ipsum integrum mensurantis. Et sic concedi potest quod ista nunc sunt, demonstrando omnia que fuerunt vel erunt, intelligendo parcialiter collective. Sed coloracius quoad logicam concedi potest quod hoc totum existens ista est nunc sed non ista, quia tunc infinita instancia forent simul in eodem instanti (de qua logica patet alibi).

But let us see the gall mixed with the sweetness of honey. "At the death of Christ," he says, "the church began to be, from which death the sacraments took their efficacy."¹ It is clear from what was said in the first reply and the second how this error not only would take away the honour of holy mother church from her antiquity, founded in the faith of scripture, but implies the destruction of the merit of our mother, and takes away the faith of the fathers of the old testament by dishonouring holy mother church.² Again, the reply manifestly contradicts itself; for before the death of Christ it was so that there is a multitude of all Christians having, entire, the right and same faith, promulgated by Christ and his apostles and declared by holy fathers in general councils, as is declared in the reply. Therefore before the death of Christ it was so that there is a church.³ For the church did not begin in the three days, when Christ is said 413not to be; nor does it make sense to those who imprison the present time that the sacraments took their origin from the death of Christ, as is clear by asking which sacraments took their origin from the said death, and when.⁴ Nor is the other reply of any avail, by which it is said that the aforesaid definition of the church did not apply to the church in the holy three days: both because then a definition would not be valid which would fail so soon in the flowers of the primitive church, and secondly because, according to what has been declared, the definition of the church applied to Christians before the death of Christ, and by the same token in the holy three days. Therefore the said definition is not to be deserted so soon, since at its end it is added that it will stand for ever notwithstanding my objections.⁵ But truly, to feign a definition by which so holy a college of the apostles, with its abbot, would be excluded from the account of the church for the whole time of its wayfaring seems presumption, since the foreknown are said to be of holy mother church; and in the beginning of the world, before the creation of man, as also when both parents had fallen, there was a church (as is clear, Enchiridion 64).⁶ Further, in reply to the fifth little argument, the answer is that, as the same species of men remains continuously notwithstanding that the individuals vary, so the same universal church remains continuously notwithstanding that some members are generated and others corrupted. So (he says) the same man in number will remain, notwithstanding that equal parts are, some generated and others corrupted. Why, I ask, will it not be so with the mystical body of Christ, which is the church?⁷ And truly that is well said, provided [it is said] consistently. For the catholic church must be one person, a bride, and not formally a species or universal which is of many singulars; but it 414is one successive person from the beginning of the world to the day of judgement, and afterwards that person will have all her members together, perpetually blessed; and of that person now one part is militant and now another; but as no part is the remaining [part], so that whole church is not any part of itself, but one total and glorious incommunicable person.⁸ For human wit does not grasp that these few militant persons, whom the falsifier calls the universal church, should be other persons, jointly or severally; indeed, upon the otherness of any single person there follows the otherness of a multitude which lacked that person from a multitude which had that person as a part.⁹ Therefore that catholic church which lasts from the beginning to the end of the world is not, as to its whole self, the persons or the multitude of the faithful that now is; but that multitude is a part of that catholic church, which is in the great time and always after the day of judgement, but at no instant of time is it wholly [present] before the last elect, nor in any part of such time.¹⁰ And such a church can be increased but not diminished: not that the same multitude of the predestinate in number is now more men and now fewer, but that the same common [term] for the holy total church militant is now greater and now less, as scripture speaks in Acts 6 of the number of the disciples increasing.¹¹ As therefore the same time in number is not made greater or less, so neither is the same church in number, except by taking the church commonly for the head and any total multitude whatever of its members. For so the church is made greater, as a man is, the unity of the head standing, as [that] of the soul.¹² But this truth necessitates positing that all things which have been or will be are, for their time, causing one integral whole, of which a part is for a part of the total time 415measuring that integral whole. And so it can be granted that these now are, pointing to all things that have been or will be, understanding [it] partially and collectively. But with more colour as regards logic it can be granted that this whole, existing as these things, is now, but not these things; for then infinite instants would be together in the same instant (of which logic it is clear elsewhere).¹³

Notes

1 Fel ... cum mellis dulcedine: the gall in the doctor’s first reply to the fourth argument (17-g), whose honey Wyclif had granted ("this saying is in part catholic"). Inquit: the doctor. R. A in the margin at 412.15: Contra hoc quod dicitur quod ecclesia incepit post mortem Christi.
2 Ex dictis in prima responsione et secunda: taken as what was said in answering the doctor’s replies to the first and second arguments, where Wyclif argued that the church was before the incarnation (17-a to 17-c); it may instead mean the first reply to the fourth argument and the second reply that follows. Fundata agrees with antiquitate. T. At 412.19 B omits honorem; at 412.20–21 A and A₁ read sed innuitur ("but is implied"); the print innuit is translated.
3 Fuit ita quod est: "it was so that there is", Wyclif’s tensed idiom: before Christ’s death the proposition "there is a multitude having the faith declared in councils" was true, so by the doctor’s own definition "there is a church" was true then. Ut declaratur in responsione: the doctor’s first reply (17-g) set general councils of Christ and the apostles before his death.
4 In triduo: the three days of Christ’s death, when Christ "is said not to be" (soul and body being parted). Nec sapit incarcerantibus presens tempus: taken as "nor does it make sense to those who imprison the present time", that is, those who confine what is to the present instant (cf. the argumentum ad hominem, 17-a): on their teaching a past death can be the origin of nothing. T. At 413.1 Loserth notes incarcerantibus: "so the manuscripts".
5 Compeciit: perfect of competo, "applied to". Cum in fine adicitur: the doctor’s definition closed with the claim that it would stand for ever against Wyclif’s objections; obiectibus is the print’s form.
6 Cum suo abbate: Christ, as abbot of the apostolic college. Sue viacionis may refer to the college or to its abbot; on either reading the time meant is Christ’s life before his death. Cum presciti dicuntur ...: the doctor counts the foreknown of the church (18-a), yet his definition shuts out the apostles. S. Augustine, Enchiridion; Wyclif’s ch. 64, which Loserth corrects to 57: the church in the holy angels is chs. 56–57 (PL 40; Haec in sanctis Angelis beata persistit). S. At 413.21 Loserth compares p. 114.13. R. B in the margin at 413.17: Ante lapsum primorum parentum erat ecclesia.
7 A in the margin at 413.20: Quinta responsio. T. At 413.23 B omits individua ... quod. C. Partes equales alie generentur et alie corrumpantur: in nourishment equal parts are gained and lost, and the man stays the same in number.
8 Dummodo consequenter: "provided [it is said] consistently", that is, followed through; Wyclif accepts the comparison and turns it. Persona successiva: a person whose being is spread through time. Sicut nulla pars est reliqua: no part is another part, and the whole is none of its parts. R. A in the margin at 413.30: Ecclesia quid est?; B: Ecclesia est una persona successiva.
9 Falsarius: "the falsifier", the opponent. The argument: a multitude with one person more or fewer is another multitude, so the few now militant cannot stay "the same universal church" while members come and go. Simplicis persone: a single person.
10 Non est persone vel multitudo: the plural persone beside the singular est is taken as "the persons"; the print may be faulty here (persona?). In magno tempore: the whole span of the world’s time (cf. 17-a, magnus annus mundi). Ante novissimum electum: before the last of the elect [has come]. T. At 414.18 B reads sed in illo instanti, and at 414.19–20 vero in aliqua; the print is translated.
11 Idem commune ad sanctam totalem ecclesiam militantem: taken as the same common [term] answering to the whole holy church militant, which now covers more men and now fewer. T. At 414.23 A and A₁ read secundum quod idem. S. Acts 6:1 (DR "the number of the disciples increasing").
12 The whole of time is not greater or less, though its present part changes. Communiter: the church taken as the head with whatever total multitude of members, as a man grows while the unity of the soul stands; capitis ut anime: the head being as the soul.
13 Causancia unum integrum: "causing", that is, making up one integral whole, each thing a part for its part of the total time. Parcialiter collective: "these now are" holds of the whole taken collectively, each part for its part of the time. Hoc totum existens ista est nunc sed non ista: the whole that is these things is now; the things severally are not, or infinite instants would coincide. Coloracius: comparative of colorate, "with more colour", on a more plausible ground (glossary: color, colorare). De qua logica patet alibi: the place is not identified. T. At 415.2 B reads ista autem sunt.

How the Latin of this chapter was established

Plate readings; page · reading · note):
- 412: ∅ (dulce-/dine.: main pos 105 already holds dulcedine., so this second-half token is empty (hyphen convention))
- 412: Christi
- 412: fundata (clear f)
- 412: fide (clear fi)
- 412: meriti (clear ri)
- 412: incepit (clear in) [NW]
- 412: triduo
- 413: Christi
- 413: variarentur (clear ri)
- 413: Christi
- 414: alietas (print reads alietas) [NW]
- 414: iudicii
- 415: ipsum (alinea Q and 186b folio mark glued)